Dana Marie (00:01.609)

Hi everybody and welcome back to the Empowered to Advocate podcast. This is Dana Marie and I am joined here with Michelle and it's been a little while since both of us have been together on the podcast. We've had a couple of episodes where it's been one of us and not the other, but we're back together today. Yay. Reunited and it feels so good. With our second part of our short little series on behavior and school discipline as they both relate to kids with disabilities, children on IEPs. If you did not listen to part one, we do suggest that you go back and listen to that first. But for those of you who did listen, just a quick reminder, what we talked about in the first episode was kind of a bird's eye view, an overview of some statistics we started with on school discipline and behavior. But then we talked about five things that you can do as a parent or caregiver if you are particularly concerned about your own child's school behavior or challenging behaviors, interfering behaviors. And we talked about everything from having your child evaluated, especially if they're not already on an IEP, but also maybe asking to reconvene the team, update an FBA, ask for some data and things like that.

So today we're gonna take that bird's eye view and we're actually gonna dial in a little bit. And we are gonna talk briefly about some of the acronyms that we threw around in that episode, but that folks in education and special education throw around all the time and we're gonna give you just a little bit more information about FBAs, functional behavior assessments, positive behavior support plans or PBSPs or sometimes also called BIPs or B-I-P's. Those are sort of the three main acronyms that we hear thrown around. Oh, and also the people who are usually responsible for all those BCBAs. So really four acronyms that we throw around a lot way back in season two, or maybe even no season two of the podcast. We did interview Karen Roy, a BCBA, who talked to us a little bit more about what a BCBA actually does, sort of the role of a BCBA.

Michelle she/her (02:07.599)

Season two.

Dana Marie (02:18.365)

We didn't get into too much detail around FBAs and behavior support plans. So that is what we're going to do today. So I'm gonna throw it to Michelle. It's nice to have my partner back and she's gonna talk a little bit about functional behavior assessments, FBAs, before we get into support plans.

Michelle she/her (02:39.042)

So really, in general, a behavior assessment, a functional behavior assessment, is doing exactly what the full title is saying. The reason it gets a little confusing is because it's typically, once again, another acronym that's thrown around at a meeting, right? So you get the whole alphabet of acronyms thrown at you at these meetings. So an FBA, or a functional behavior assessment, is essentially an assessment, a more formalized assessment for either a board certified behavior analyst, a BCBA, or it could even be a licensed social worker completing an FBA as well to essentially determine or make a hypothesis about what is the function of the student's behavior. So if the student is hitting other people, okay, we might do a functional behavior assessment to help us determine why, why are they hitting somebody? And there is typically four main functions of behavior.

So when we're doing a functional behavior assessment, we're typically looking at four functions or potential functions of the behavior that we can then design well thought out interventions to help decrease that behavior that is interfering with learning while also increasing behaviors that we do wanna see that is like replacing that behavior. So again, if we use that example of hitting, we would be looking at, is it escape motivated?

Is it attention motivated? Is it sensory motivated? Is there something internal? Is it like impulsive? And then also tangible. Tangible is when somebody is seeking something in return. So they, a student sees a muffin on the counter and they want that muffin. And when somebody is preventing them from getting that muffin, they hit the person to get that muffin. Or there's a favorite preferred toy in the classroom that other students also enjoy using, and the student is then hitting people to get that toy, we might then hypothesize that hitting is for a tangible reason. It might also be they're hitting because they're looking for attention, any kind of attention, right? It's hard as human beings, attention is attention, whether it's good intention or for not something so great, right? And then escape.

Every time the student is asked to sit down and do work, they hit you. They hit the teacher. Then we might hypothesize that the function of that behavior is escape motivated, right? Because then we're going to address and create an intervention based on that main function of that behavior to help address it. So if the function of the behavior is attention motivated, we might then ignore the behavior to whatever limit we're able to address it in a very, very neutral sort of way so that we're really minimizing the amount of attention that the student gets for that behavior. Obviously there's, um, always safety. We are only ignoring behavior that is as safe as possible. That's not going to cause harm to the student or others, right? So, um, it can be tricky sometimes when it's like an ignore sort of strategy.

The behavior is attention motivated, and then we're just giving a ton of attention when the student then does that behavior. We're just feeding. We're reinforcing that behavior, right? So functional behavior assessment and FBA is an evaluation, is an assessment that is conducted to find a hypothesis for a function or functions of a behavior. So well thought out interventions can then be implemented, which would then be written in that behavior support plan that we then are able to track the behaviors, collect data, and analyze that data to see is that intervention working or not working. And if it's not working, then make adjustments to it. So it's a very fluid process too. And you, a functional behavior assessment, you're collecting data directly through observation and then also indirectly through like rating scales or staff interviews, parent interviews, and then you're kind of pulling all the pieces together to make that hypothesis. Most often, the hypothesis for the function of the behavior is cross-functions. Because humans are cool like that, right? We're motivated by a lot of things, and our children are no different. They are humans, right? So I think was that a...

Michelle she/her

Did I break that down enough?

Dana Marie

Yeah, and it made me think that one thing we should have said at the beginning was not dissimilar from other assessments or evaluations that your child might go through in school. This one goes through a similar process. The school district will typically reach out to you to gain your consent to complete the assessment, to complete the evaluation. You'll have the opportunity to accept or deny that consent as like I said, any other evaluation or assessment where then the district has a certain number of days to complete it, to get you a report, and then to have a meeting with you to go over that report and then usually a draft of the behavior support plan too.

Also similar to other assessments in that once they're completed and used, like Michelle said, to come up with interventions, things like that, they're not just never revisited or just sort of then forgotten about thrown away, a good rule of thumb is that every couple of years or so the assessment is completed again to see where things may have changed, where functions may have changed, where the child is making incredible progress already towards their goals may not even require the support of a behavior support plan anymore, so on and so forth. So just a note that an FBA follows a lot of the same rules for lack of a better term as other evaluations. and assessments.

Michelle she/her

Yeah, I think that's important to note. And I think it's also important to note that because our children, our learners, our students are also always evolving, that the team, especially if there is a behavior support plan in place, especially if there is a school social worker and or a BCBA involved, there might also be less formal data collection. I mean, there should be data collection being collected. Oh my goodness. But we'll get into that But they might also be doing observations and collecting some data. You'll hear it called ABC data, and that's called, it's antecedent behavior consequence. And that is something that you don't necessarily need a consent form for or to have the team look into, okay, here is the behavior, what happened right before the behavior, what happened right after the behavior, because then we can pull more information from there. So it's like a little, typically ABC data is also part of a functional behavior assessment, part of that larger assessment, but it can be like a standalone way to collect data just to make sure we're staying on top of things, especially if new behaviors are popping up or evolving or changing or it's a new school. Sometimes we see things change in a child's repertoire of behavior when they change from elementary school to middle school, middle school to high school, or you move to a new school district. Different environments, different learning environments, different staff, different setups of classrooms and programs can just change the way people adapt to those situations, right? So we're always looking at that data to see are things working or do we need to change things up? Just like we would with a reading intervention, right?

Dana Marie

And same, you took the words literally right out of my mouth. I was gonna say, I was gonna say, just like any other part of your child's profile, right? For if your child is struggling with interfering behaviors in school, they may also have challenges in other areas, reading or math or communication or occupational therapy, sensory, whatever the case may be. We treat this in a similar way as we do treat an academic challenge, concerns something that we're working on, which brings us to the positive behavior support plan, oftentimes called a behavior intervention plan or a BIP. Like Michelle said, once the FBA is completed, they use the information from that assessment to build this support plan, right? And the support plan outlines what those interfering behaviors are, the challenging behaviors, the possible hypothesized reasons behind the behaviors, the functions.

But then it goes another step further and outlines some interventions, some strategies that would be helpful for the classroom teacher, the school team, maybe paraeducators working with the child to use or to replace other ways that maybe they've been responding to the child when they engage in this particular behavior. And then includes some measurable goals as well. And that part is really, from our perspective, very important because like Michelle said, children are ever evolving, just like adults are ever evolving. And we want to make sure that we're setting clear goals for the child that are measurable, that are attainable, that we can track fairly easily so that when we come back for an IEP team meeting or when we reconvene the team or when parents are receiving data at home, sent home or graphs, data graphs or things like that, we can see if the interventions, if the strategies are working where they are working, maybe where they're not working. So not dissimilar from other areas. When you receive a progress report, for instance, for your child, and you get their progress in reading, their progress in math their progress with communication from the SLP, so on and so forth. If your child has a positive behavior support plan and behavior goals, you should also be receiving the progress on those goals. Where do they start? Where are they now? Where are they progressing to? Are they on track to meet these goals? And I think that part is really important because what can happen, and this doesn't necessarily happen all the time, but what can happen is when a child or a young person is engaging in challenging behaviors that are interfering with their own learning, the learning of their peers, so on and so forth, that can be a really stressful time. That is a stressful time for the child, that is a stressful time for their parents or parent, that is a stressful time for the teachers trying different interventions and strategies with the child, it can be a high stress time.

We can take that moment, complete an FBA, complete a positive behavior support plan, start implementing the plan, get the team together, meet, so on and so forth. But then the important piece after that is to not lose that momentum. And what I think sometimes happens, and it's not even just with behavior, but sometimes we react, and I say we because it can sometimes be us as the advocates, it can be sometimes parents, it could be sometimes school team members. We're in a stressful situation. It is only human that we will react and try to come up with a solution, come up with a plan. But the important piece when we are talking about a child and their interfering behaviors or challenging behaviors is that we don't lose momentum once the behavior plan is created and put into place, once the data has started to be tracked, once the goals have been established and the objectives the child is going to meet, keeping sort of diligent for lack of a better term and making sure that we are, like Michelle said, taking that data, tracking, but also constantly reassessing where the child is, what progress they've made, if things need to be changed, right? These are living, breathing documents, quite frankly, and just because you write something in October doesn't mean that that's going to be the best plan in January, like things can change. So just as the parents and caregivers, obviously keeping your eye, but also just not being afraid to reach out to school and say, hey, we have this plan in place. It's been in place for two or three months. I'm not totally sure it's working based on what I've seen for progress, based on what I've seen for updates. Can we like get back together and see if there's anything that needs to be shifted or changed? I think that's an important thing to keep in mind, obviously.

Michelle she/her

And I think the other thing to keep in mind too is that the plan that the team develops together needs to be something that can be followed with fidelity consistently because the best plan is going to be a plan that folks can follow and implement because we can write the best plan in the whole world.

But if the team members are unable to follow it or it's very confusing or it's very time consuming for, you know, depending on the setting, sometimes that indicates that maybe this is a conversation that we need to be having other conversations about potentially placement, potentially more services, potentially, you know, maybe an educational support professional in the classroom, a paraprofessional in the classroom, or a one-on-one or a one-to-two person, right? So we need to make sure that the plan that is created is one that can be implemented with fidelity and consistency, because if it is not followed and implemented with fidelity and consistency, then all of our data doesn't mean anything. It doesn't mean anything. We're not able to then know if that intervention's working. It's, well, we know it's not working because people aren't following it for whatever, and there could be any numerous reasons for that. Best case scenario is it's a team. It's just too much for a public school setting or an inclusion setting. So maybe they need a more structured sub-separate setting or something like that, or it could be the staff needs more training, right? So there's always conversations to be had around that. But the best made plan is the one that can be followed. And that's, I think, what Karen said in her episode, right?

Dana Marie

I'm remembering.

I told her, she's gonna say, it's now coming all back to me. She said, it's a difference between the best plan and the most doable plan, is what she said. And so to Michelle's point, much like with anything else, let's put a plan into place that not just works for the child, but works for the team that's working with them as well, so that they are able to communicate.

Michelle she/her

Yes, yes.

Dana Marie

to parents and caregivers at home and make sure that they're giving them the information that they need as well. So definitely go back and listen to that episode if you didn't. Definitely go listen to part one of this series if you didn't because some of the things that we're talking about today certainly were touched upon in those episodes as well.

Michelle she/her

I mean, I could talk about this stuff all day. But I think that is a nice bite-sized chunk of information. And then we'll be back for a part three, which I think would be if anybody who's listening has specific questions that you would like us to answer, we can do it anonymously. If you email us at empowered2advocate@gmail.com or send us a DM on Instagram, even though there is no way to really send us the question anonymously. If you say, please don't use my name on the episode, we will do that. And then that way we can, because if your child is having a challenge or you have a question about behavior in school or anything really for that matter, other caregivers probably also have that question. So if you're thinking it and you want us to answer it in the next episode or two, please send it along to us so we can get that answered.

Dana Marie

Definitely, we would love to hear from you. And like Michelle said, we do have one more episode in this series on behavior and school discipline. So we will be back next week with that episode and would love to answer some of your questions at the end. So thank you so much for listening today. Go back and listen to part one if you have not done so already. And we will be back next week with the final episode of this series and then a special holiday episode after that.

Michelle she/her

Yay. Bye everyone.

Dana Marie

Talk to you soon, everybody.